The Modern High Street

[adamoflondon]

Just wondering what members views are on the state of the once noble High Street? What is your own High Street like and what is it missing?

[Del]

OK, I'll start the ball rolling: The main thing missing, as I think we all know, are the old-style gents outfitters, where you could buy clothes off the peg, or have something made to measure, often paid for in installments. My dad had a beautiful charcoal grey suit made for him at Moss Bros, Covent Garden in 1962, which cost him the princely sum of £32. There's currently an outlet bearing the Moss Bros name in our local high street, and their clothes now......I'd rather not discuss. (their beautiful tailoring department shut down in the early 80's, I believe.) Austin Reed, Burtons etc all used to offer affordable tailoring in the 60's. Result? Pubs, clubs, offices and high streets full of people who'd made a bit of an effort to look smart. Our local high street is now disfigured by baseball caps (ugh!), shapeless sportswear, and clueless teen fashion genres seemingly based entirely around black T-shirts and tattoos. What's missing? In a word, elegance.

Its not all gloom, though. Decent shoes can be found in the high street (Dune, for instance), and we seem to have more choice these days. Loakes are still nice and affordable. Certain shirt manufacturers have relaunched lines they made in the 60's,(bless 'em!) and occasionally even get it right, if you know what to look for.

The real problem is an uneducated market. People just buy whatever they're instructed to by the adverts, because they've forgotten what an elegant cut looks like. Baggy and shapeless has been relentlessly marketed because that is how its easiest for manufacturers to maximize their margins. Hey, if its "New!" it must be good, right? To be fair, one or two high street manufacturers have suits out this year that are attempting a slimmer silhouette, but what the uninitiated fail to realise is that there's a world of difference between "fitted" and "tailored". Try them on, and you'll find the construction's all wrong, and they're just never going to look quite right. Anyway, that's enough. I don't think I'm telling anyone on here anything they don't already know, it just seemed a bit rude to leave this discussion hanging around.

[adamoflondon]

Hiya Del

Totally agree with your piece and the only thing I would add is that another factor is the affordability to actually have a HIGH STREET prescence at all, by this I mean an actual traditional facade and shop!
Gone are the days sadly, of small independent and mysteriously intersesting shops that seems to harbour eccentric crazed obsessionals with wonky but fascinating world views matched only by their hidden stocks of gems of much sought after lost lines and dead (souls) stock. I have almost a ghostly vivid memory of finding a cool little chap in a skinny outlet in Balham, South London, when we were going through our ‘rude bwoy’ phase circa 79 and he mentioned that he has some label-less box pleat short sleeve button downs (not shermans?), braces, tonik sta press, sleevless v neck all wool tight knits, levi E & lee denims jackets etc etc etc and we I think paid £2 for our sta press and not much more for harringtons. This was a big deal for kids our age and we thought we were the johnny nanas!
Also remember a strange wig shop in central london (not sure where exactly) that felt like a spiritulist meeting rooms :)

Watching the programmes recently about Saville Row etc bought home just how sad it is that the average age of a bespoke tailor is 55 and that like you say there is folks that will pay 3k for some mass produced hyped crap from milan without blinking and look like they have been asleep in it for a month!

Must admit being a bit of a scruffy, lazy sod myself these daze, but in my mind I would brush up like Mcqueen or Sidney Poitier at there coolest :) ha ha ha

[adamoflondon]

adamoflondon said:

Hiya Del, webmaster here (not adam himself) :)

Totally agree with your piece and the only thing I would add is that another factor is the affordability to actually have a HIGH STREET prescence at all, by this I mean an actual traditional facade and shop!
Gone are the days sadly, of small independent and mysteriously intersesting shops that seems to harbour eccentric crazed obsessionals with wonky but fascinating world views matched only by their hidden stocks of gems of much sought after lost lines and dead (souls) stock. I have almost a ghostly vivid memory of finding a cool little chap in a skinny outlet in Balham, South London, when we were going through our ‘rude bwoy’ phase circa 79 and he mentioned that he has some label-less box pleat short sleeve button downs (not shermans?), braces, tonik sta press, sleevless v neck all wool tight knits, levi E & lee denims jackets etc etc etc and we I think paid £2 for our sta press and not much more for harringtons. This was a big deal for kids our age and we thought we were the johnny nanas!
Also remember a strange wig shop in central london (not sure where exactly) that felt like a spiritulist meeting rooms :)

Watching the programmes recently about Saville Row etc bought home just how sad it is that the average age of a bespoke tailor is 55 and that like you say there is folks that will pay 3k for some mass produced hyped crap from milan without blinking and look like they have been asleep in it for a month!

Must admit being a bit of a scruffy, lazy sod myself these daze, but in my mind I would brush up like Mcqueen or Sidney Poitier at there coolest :) ha ha ha

[Jeff Lewin]

adamoflondon said:

Hiya Del

Totally agree with your piece and the only thing I would add is that another factor is the affordability to actually have a HIGH STREET prescence at all, by this I mean an actual traditional facade and shop!
Gone are the days sadly, of small independent and mysteriously intersesting shops that seems to harbour eccentric crazed obsessionals with wonky but fascinating world views matched only by their hidden stocks of gems of much sought after lost lines and dead (souls) stock. I have almost a ghostly vivid memory of finding a cool little chap in a skinny outlet in Balham, South London, when we were going through our ‘rude bwoy’ phase circa 79 and he mentioned that he has some label-less box pleat short sleeve button downs (not shermans?), braces, tonik sta press, sleevless v neck all wool tight knits, levi E & lee denims jackets etc etc etc and we I think paid £2 for our sta press and not much more for harringtons. This was a big deal for kids our age and we thought we were the johnny nanas!
Also remember a strange wig shop in central london (not sure where exactly) that felt like a spiritulist meeting rooms :)

Watching the programmes recently about Saville Row etc bought home just how sad it is that the average age of a bespoke tailor is 55 and that like you say there is folks that will pay 3k for some mass produced hyped crap from milan without blinking and look like they have been asleep in it for a month!

Must admit being a bit of a scruffy, lazy sod myself these daze, but in my mind I would brush up like Mcqueen or Sidney Poitier at there coolest :) ha ha ha

I personally feel that when men began to discard the wearing of ties, the casual, sloppy appearance surely followed.
Back in the day. All pub landlords would not have dreamed of serving there customers in a t-shirt. Every gentlemen that worked behind a counter, wore a tie. Even the green grocer, dishing out spuds.
Then of course, we have the so called "stars" dressed like shite. Which in turn spurns 10,000 copycat tramps.
And the old cliche, " I blame the parents. Youngsters today only see dad in a suit when Gran, or Grandad dies.
But I,m of the belief that we will see a resurgence of the dapper look. Not to the extent that it was in the past. But certainly some sort of revival.
And someone mentioned the programme about Saville Row. One word...BEAUTIFUL. I realised that there was the job that I,d have loved. Too late now of course. They even wore cuff links whilst working. Proper gents.
And as for favourite suit in a film...No question. Sean Connery,s prince of wales check, 3 piece, in Goldfinger.
Well all that has given my age away. But there is no age limit to appreciating style.

[Jeff the Fish]

Well I get most of my clothes in Spain where it seems in amongst the jeans and sporty stuff some very nice kit can still be found on the "High St", especially shirts and shoes.... but then this is the land where you still find independent little shops that just sell coat hangers etc. However "El Corte Ingles" (translation 'The English Cut' - Yes, after our tailoring!) which is the main department store that can be found in all Spanish towns usually has a fantastic selection of menswear. It's not dead everywhere yet!

On the subject of ties, I don't wear them often (sacriledge!), because I found over the years that dancing, fighting (when I was young and stupid) and playing gigs are all mighty difficult with a string round your neck.

[Adi]

I believe that the spread of the chain store heralded the death knell for the typically English high street. Indeed they are so prevalent that there is almost little point in travelling to another town to undertake ones shopping. I expect that a couple of different independents can be found but usually it’s only the order of the shops that changes.

Body Slop, Muttons, Plop Shop, etc

[Jeff the Fish]

Makes me laugh that wherever you go in the world from Asia to America if you feel lonely just head for a shopping mall. They're all the same!!

[adamoflondon]

Good stuff on this thread, think cultural bankruptcy will hopefully be put on the agenda (probably when its already too late) alongside those of the current financial and moral kind. Being generic and homogenised has never been more readily convenient than nowadays on every (HIGH) street corner. It almost the domain of an eccentric millionaire maverick to go against the flow and compete with the mono-mindset. Maybe we traded individualistic expression for PC Cloaks and Corporate Daggers?

[Outrigger]

Gents outfitters were always a good place to find nice stuff. I lived in North London for five years up until 200 and I regularly used three different outfitters and a local tailor.I know once they retire the chances are their shops will become chain stores. I even see this happening on Savile Row, in the ten years I've had an interest in that street, half the tailor's have gone. The Savile Row name has attracted people like Abercrrombie and Fitch (Average and Filthy) who will pay high rent to be able to have a Savile Row address. Even respected names like Kilgour, Geives and Hawkes and Henry Poole are jumping on the branding band waggon. I think they'll always be a few gems out there like Adam, but I think they'll only be in the capitol in the future, where as they could be found in any major city 20 years ago.

[Jeff the Fish]

adamoflondon said:

Maybe we traded individualistic expression for PC Cloaks and Corporate Daggers?

Indeed it's like Lord of the Flies at the moment. Kill all the bankers (who will get us out of the financial mess then?), kill all the social workers (what about all the work currently in progress?), kill the government (they are doing all they can), kill anything different (PCness makes everyone the same)... CONFORM OR DIE. All looking for someone to blame why it's all going wrong, when the reason lies fairly and squarely with themselves. The press is largely to blame, unpatriotically destroying anything they can get their hands on while at the same time glorifying these mediocre or even no-ocre "celebrity" "stars".. oops, my first rant on here! apologies.

On the plus side, maybe after all this mess a new era will emerge? Whether that will translate into a quality upsurge in clothing remains to be seen however!

Long live Posh and Becks!

[Crosse]

I have noticed that Jeff on my travels around Europe in the past going to rigs, the worst of all is having a bloody golden arch in a classic city !!. On the high street I am sad to say they are a endangered species even the larger shops seem to be moving out to shopping parks etc. I use to really enjoy shopping in Norwich years ago a nice experience going from shop to shop in particular the individual curiosty shops and clothes shops. Now apart from a couple it is pretty much the shopping mall of plastic and stainless steel, completely soul less as many of its occupants. Even older chaps now wander about completely decked out from sportsworld and they grew up in a smarter time !. I hate bloody sportsworld ! but fear it is all too late, even if we could ban it from our land. On a positive not and drawing on the dunkirk spirit there are a few brave chaps and ladies who dandy up the dowdy corporate soul less high street with their fine dress, in fact I may even don a bowler hat this time off and will report back on my progress if I survive !!


Crosse said:

Jeff the Fish said:

Makes me laugh that wherever you go in the world from Asia to America if you feel lonely just head for a shopping mall. They're all the same!!

[WILLIE JAMIESON]

Jeff the Fish said:

Well I get most of my clothes in Spain where it seems in amongst the jeans and sporty stuff some very nice kit can still be found on the "High St", especially shirts and shoes.... but then this is the land where you still find independent little shops that just sell coat hangers etc. However "El Corte Ingles" (translation 'The English Cut' - Yes, after our tailoring!) which is the main department store that can be found in all Spanish towns usually has a fantastic selection of menswear. It's not dead everywhere yet!

On the subject of ties, I don't wear them often (sacriledge!), because I found over the years that dancing, fighting (when I was young and stupid) and playing gigs are all mighty difficult with a string round your neck.